Curse

Blow Up Doll · Sep 08, 2006, 09:15 PM // 21:15

I love delibitating shot - any time i have space i put it on a ranger. This was recently backed up by its use in the GWFC. So i was bored and started thinking of a ranger build i could make in randoms that can use delibitating and some other stuff and be very annoying. So with boons being as popular as they are...why not stick in NR? Even better what about Qz also? Some traps to cover them and then i thought that poision arrow would be nice to add in a little degen. The build i ended up with in the end was about this:

Poison Arrow {E}
Barbed Trap
Flame Trap
Dust Trap
Delibitating Shot
Natures Renewal
Quickening Zephyr
Signet of Resurection

The average monk finds it hard to keep going for long under Qz. Boons especially under Nr also. But then if you look at the -10 energy from delibitating shot coming in every 5 seconds (taking Qz into account)...what monk can cope with that?

So then i was thinking...could this be translated to Ta?
For a start of course i would change poison arrow for oath shot on the ranger because the spirits are quite important... I think a Blight monk could work but possibly even a return to one of the old WoH healers (lower energy) might be better and just take other hex and condition removals. It might be hard to cope with but you can always take a BiP or Br... The energy gets a bit tight on the ranger also so it wouldn't be bad for him either.

You can't really look to rely on hexes in this build with Nr. Smite is a definate no. Ele's ain't looking great either under Qz and Nr. I recon the way forwards is another ranger or a warrior along with a necro doing blood skills and life stealing nastiness with either ooB and Br or BiP or possibly a me/n doing other nasty things but keeping the Br/BiP. You could even go for another trapper.
I haven't thought heavily about how to make this into a good 4man build but i thought i'd just float the idea as i don't have time or a decent Ta team to test ideas with.

Any ideas/improvements? or is it just total madness? You never know lol - this could be the new FotM build ^^ :P

Celab · Sep 08, 2006, 09:36 PM // 21:36

takes 5 seconds to recharge under QZ? Thats is hot, 6 pip degen ftw.

Hell, throw it into a NT|Tranq build and you will screw a f-load of monks and builds. Or just ifnore tranq and use QZ instead.

Im still can't believe the QZ 6 pip degen, throw in serphants quickness aswell... Mucho fun

Divineshadows · Sep 08, 2006, 09:36 PM // 21:36

It is really tough to design a monk build that functions under both QZ and NR. Basically, the monk would have to rely on signet of devotion and signet of rejuv to do the bulk of the healing. Word of healing would be the most efficient energy based heal you could use under these conditions. Divine spirit would be nice due to its lower recharge, but running in an enchantment light build you are almost certain that it will not last anywhere near its full duration.

The second issue with such a build concept is that to make QZ and NR stay up often, you really want to combine it with oath shot and protect them with traps. This is going to make the energy too tight on the trapper and virtually any caster or ranger you have on your team. Basically, the only elements of the game I can see thriving under QZ are signets, maintained enchantments, and adrenaline based skills. Placing NR into the mix leaves only signets and adrenaline based skills functioning well.

My conclusion in the past when thinking about the two in combination has always been that they should be part of a very offensive build which takes the attitude of why bother when considering monks and other casters.

Blow Up Doll · Sep 08, 2006, 09:53 PM // 21:53

I agree there divine - having just tested it in Ra a bit i recon Oath over psn arrow there also. On the monk build i was looking at WoH orisons sig of devotion sig of rejuv and nothing above 5 energy if possible. With a good bit of Br spam i was hoping that might be enough. Also on the trapper - energy isn't too bad and if you could find space for a Br/BiP you'd be fine if you don't just spam mindlessly. In Ra i just got a team with 2 thumpers 1 war and me. We totally screwed a couple of teams with monks etc. We just went in - i spammed on the monk and they bashed. If we got into trouble we just fell back to my traps. The only problem was that they only selfheal i noticed on the team was a heal sig on the war...this of course would be different in an organised team... We got a good 7 consec or so though before narrowly losing.
Even ViM could be a posibility i suppose and add heavy conditions into the build. An apply poison sword r/w with sever gash etc and then a strait thumper or normal warrior (lol could make it a virulence w/n). Look at Nr Tranq combined with this - screw tranq - i think Qz is superior in many ways for this purpose. This is one build that might piss of the D/Mo's if they haven't been given a good nerfing by the time that nightfall comes out...

Divineshadows · Sep 08, 2006, 10:08 PM // 22:08

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blow Up Doll

having just tested it in Ra a bit

Game changing spirits in RA? Sounds like a surefire way to get any monks or hexers on your team to ragequit after the 2nd or 3rd match once they realize it is their own teammate sabatoging their build.

Thom Bangalter · Sep 08, 2006, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

It is really tough to design a monk build that functions under both QZ and NR. Basically, the monk would have to rely on signet of devotion and signet of rejuv to do the bulk of the healing. Word of healing would be the most efficient energy based heal you could use under these conditions. Divine spirit would be nice due to its lower recharge, but running in an enchantment light build you are almost certain that it will not last anywhere near its full duration.

The second issue with such a build concept is that to make QZ and NR stay up often, you really want to combine it with oath shot and protect them with traps. This is going to make the energy too tight on the trapper and virtually any caster or ranger you have on your team. Basically, the only elements of the game I can see thriving under QZ are signets, maintained enchantments, and adrenaline based skills. Placing NR into the mix leaves only signets and adrenaline based skills functioning well.

My conclusion in the past when thinking about the two in combination has always been that they should be part of a very offensive build which takes the attitude of why bother when considering monks and other casters.

I think we're forgetting that there is another character class in the game that can heal....
rt/mo rit healer
weapon of shadow
weapon of warding
attuned was songkai
mend body and soul
generous was tsungrai
soothing memories
(empty skill slot one)
(empty skill slot two)

for the empty skill slots, you could pump points into healing and bring heal other or something similar.

Zui · Sep 08, 2006, 10:45 PM // 22:45

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Game changing spirits in RA? Sounds like a surefire way to get any monks or hexers on your team to ragequit after the 2nd or 3rd match once they realize it is their own teammate sabatoging their build.

You're giving Random Arenas players way too much credit.

~Vanilla~ · Sep 09, 2006, 10:29 AM // 10:29

Maybe something like this? http://img176.imageshack.us/img176/1...nrandc4ur5.jpg

You'd swap out the BiP Warrior for an Axe/Plague Touch, Axe/Shock, Axe/Lyssas Balance (

) or something else, if Energy isn't an issue. A Sword/Expel Warrior instead of Empathic is an option, aswell.

If you're giving up the Axe/BiP you might swap out Debilitating Shot for Tranquility, being very mean.

The Restoration Healer looks like Anet designed something like this. Attuned Was Songkai with 45 Duration and 60 Recast, the Restoration Heals being uber-energy-effective but a long recast. The synergy between Mend Body And Soul, Spirit Transfer and Ranger Spirits...

If you think he lacks Healing Power then swap something out and give him Gift Of Health.

sno · Sep 09, 2006, 11:40 AM // 11:40

Quote:

Originally Posted by Thom Bangalter

I think we're forgetting that there is another character class in the game that can heal....
rt/mo rit healer
weapon of shadow
weapon of warding
attuned was songkai
mend body and soul
generous was tsungrai
soothing memories
(empty skill slot one)
(empty skill slot two)

for the empty skill slots, you could pump points into healing and bring heal other or something similar.

First: mend body and soul only works with spirits, and the rit has no spirits. he'd have to hope the ranger spirits stayed up and he stayed in range or the skill would be pointless.

~Vanilla~ · Sep 09, 2006, 12:03 PM // 12:03

Quote:

Originally Posted by sno

First: mend body and soul only works with spirits, and the rit has no spirits. he'd have to hope the ranger spirits stayed up and he stayed in range or the skill would be pointless.

Second: You can only hold one Item at a time. Considering C4 is up, you'll only hold Songkai.

Blow Up Doll · Sep 09, 2006, 03:26 PM // 15:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Game changing spirits in RA? Sounds like a surefire way to get any monks or hexers on your team to ragequit after the 2nd or 3rd match once they realize it is their own teammate sabatoging their build.

Well i only came up with that once and ofc when we had a boon i just played as a trapper spreading degen with poision arrow. The time when i used the spirits and actually had the longest run was with 3 other mellee's

Double french today help the 4man build come close to completion.

I was thinking of making it a semi ViM team. WoH Mo/W with ViM and healing skills + signets etc (haven't finalised this one yet). And looking at the rit Healer...so many 10 energy skills under Qz = not gonna work.

This build is meant to screw up the other teams monks and hexers then use degen and pressure to wear them down. If i have time i might write up a full version with attribs and skill but would like a bit more feedback before i do.

Hammer warrior using Dev Hammer etc (weakness to fuel ViM) and the normal hammer warrior stuff (including a heal sig to take pressure off the monk.

Sword R/W with apply poision sever gash final etc for more conditions. (and a self heal (either troll or heal sig) to take further pressure off monk.

Spirit Spamming trapper with Oath shot, Nr, Qz, Whirling, Delib Shot, Barbed, Dust, Res Sig.

Sound any good? -As for taking out delib for tranq...why? Delib can be spammed every 5 seconds...what monk can cope with that +Qz +Nr?

Bolygo · Sep 09, 2006, 03:35 PM // 15:35

WoH Monk with ViM? That must be a tricky one :P

both of them are elites

~Vanilla~ · Sep 09, 2006, 03:41 PM // 15:41

Well, with Attuned was Songkai 10 Energy Spells are only 7 Energy under Qz and Soothing is like...priceless. (I think this is the right word, isn't it?)

I don't know if ViM might work since TA people tend to spread out, unless HA where 8 people are clustering in a ward.

And I think taking out Delib Shot for Tranq is viable because energy is tight on that ranger and a 4 second Spirit Bond or 2 second guardian is worth something aswell, isn't it? Oh, and it totally screws up smiters.

Blow Up Doll · Sep 09, 2006, 04:45 PM // 16:45

Sorry i meant either WoH or ViM - and yes i see your point - people are a bit spread out in Ta so thats why i had first wanted WoH with a Br/BiP on the team.

Legendary Shiz · Sep 09, 2006, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Divineshadows

Game changing spirits in RA? Sounds like a surefire way to get any monks or hexers on your team to ragequit after the 2nd or 3rd match once they realize it is their own teammate sabatoging their build.

Yeah this is NOT a build to be trying in RA. This is something you should try in TA with an orginized group that you choose what to bring. In RA you won't be able to choose not to have your own monk, or at least be able to choose a WoH monk. Also you probably won't have enough offense in RA to work along with the build.

Go to TA for sure.

Blow Up Doll · Sep 09, 2006, 06:11 PM // 18:11

Quote:

Originally Posted by Legendary Shiz

Yeah this is NOT a build to be trying in RA. This is something you should try in TA with an orginized group that you choose what to bring. In RA you won't be able to choose not to have your own monk, or at least be able to choose a WoH monk. Also you probably won't have enough offense in RA to work along with the build.
Go to TA for sure.

Lol of course its not good to test in Ra but as i said i didn't have a group to hand to test it with in Ta. So i played with it a bit in Ra (only using the spirits when there was no monk or high energy casters/hexers on my team just to play around and the if it worked alright. If i could have got a group together when i thought of it i would have but most of my friends and guild Ha only and don't like Ta...
As for the attuned ashes they sound alright but could a rit with that do better than a WoH monk? WoH will only be 7 energy and it can heal for a lot with decent div fav if they are low....You also get sig of devotion and sig of rejuv. as a monk = 2 free (reasonably large) heals on your bar...

JR · Sep 09, 2006, 06:44 PM // 18:44

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blow Up Doll

Poison Arrow {E}
Barbed Trap
Flame Trap
Dust Trap
Delibitating Shot
Natures Renewal
Quickening Zephyr
Signet of Resurection

Your build would honestly be better with Apply Poison over Poison Arrow. It would allow you to spread poison a lot faster and more efficiently.

Your build is also flawed, in that good teams will simply be able to have a caster wand you, to prevent you getting any traps off.

Distortion
Dust Trap
Spike Trap [E]
Debilitating Shot
Apply Poison
Quickening Zephyr
Natures Renewal
Resurrection Signet

Distortion when you are laying Traps, or even Spirits if the other team has a Ranger with interrupts camping you. Ideally I would have gone with an Oath Shot Whirling trapper, in order to have your spirits also recharged faster, but that doesn't really work too well with the other skills you wanted to fit in. You will have to be pretty carefull about spirit positioning, so that the other team can't simply easily kill them every time.

~Vanilla~ · Sep 09, 2006, 06:57 PM // 18:57

Quote:

Originally Posted by JR-

Ideally I would have gone with an Oath Shot Whirling trapper, in order to have your spirits also recharged faster, but that doesn't really work too well with the other skills you wanted to fit in.

Which skill(s) doesn't synergize with Oathshot? Or is it the energy?

JR · Sep 09, 2006, 07:23 PM // 19:23

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~Vanilla~

Which skill(s) doesn't synergize with Oathshot? Or is it the energy?

If you want Debilitating Shot (which is awesome), a method of Poisoning (again, worthwhile), two Spirits (the basis of the build), AND enough Traps to make Oath Shot worthwhile and be able to do a fairly decent job of defending the spirits... you simply don't have the two skill slots for Oath Shot and Whirling.

suiraCLAW · Sep 09, 2006, 07:54 PM // 19:54

@JR-

Is spike trap worth his elite status in TA?

Anyway: what about using Melandru's Shot? Melandru's shot works extremely well with qz (8 netto energy at each shot) + it would allow you to use distortion more often (distortion under qz without e-mangement sounds a bit risky).

@Blow up doll, a vim monk just doesn't work because of positioning issuses (unless you find a way to make their warrior(s) next to useless - blind doesn't count). I would use a healing monk using e-drain (9 net energy each 13 seconds is better than nothing).